Not to be rude, but i never understood the "it" pronouns? Like, i go by multiple myself so i understand he/him, she/her and even they/them, but with "it" i can't help but think of an object rather than a person. Maybe i understand it wrong? Can someone explain the motive of it other than preference?

wicker-g041 said:
Not to be rude, but i never understood the "it" pronouns? Like, i go by multiple myself so i understand he/him, she/her and even they/them, but with "it" i can't help but think of an object rather than a person. Maybe i understand it wrong? Can someone explain the motive of it other than preference?

Some people don't really associate with gender as a concept for one reason or another. I used to date someone that went by it/its, and while it may seem like that to some, you have to remember that it's no different than just using someone's preferred pronouns.

bird-tm said:
Some people don't really associate with gender as a concept for one reason or another. I used to date someone that went by it/its, and while it may seem like that to some, you have to remember that it's no different than just using someone's preferred pronouns.

I'm aware, it's just that the human consciousness doesn't really "auto-sort" it/it's in the pronouns category, so if you're not used to it it can be hard to get used to. I'm just trying to understand it better so i can have an easier time getting used to it.

wicker-g041 said:
I'm aware, it's just that the human consciousness doesn't really "auto-sort" it/it's in the pronouns category, so if you're not used to it it can be hard to get used to. I'm just trying to understand it better so i can have an easier time getting used to it.

Trust me, I had a hard time getting used to it, too. It's not really something that we're really socially supposed to do, referring to people as "it" like an object.

It's why I said what I said in the first comment — For me, the best way to make it easier to do, was to think of it like addressing something. Like, in a formal letter, Mr. Or Mrs., which is how you'd address someone.

If you remove the social stigma of it - talking to someone like an object - and replace it with the notion that you're just addressing someone - it becomes much easier.

bird-tm said:
Trust me, I had a hard time getting used to it, too. It's not really something that we're really socially supposed to do, referring to people as "it" like an object.

It's why I said what I said in the first comment — For me, the best way to make it easier to do, was to think of it like addressing something. Like, in a formal letter, Mr. Or Mrs., which is how you'd address someone.

If you remove the social stigma of it - talking to someone like an object - and replace it with the notion that you're just addressing someone - it becomes much easier.

Not to deviate from discussing the art itself (which is lovely), but I don't personally understand why one wouldn't just opt to use they/them in that situation.

Obviously I say this with the acknowledgement that at the end of the day you can ask people to use whatever pronoun you want, and those who do are well within their right to do so. But I figure that surely the initial discomfort of being referred to as an object, to a degree, must also be felt by the one using the pronoun... I'd think that, if one doesn't identify as any gender, then a gender-agnostic "they/them" serves the same purpose of conveying a non-standard gender identification while also avoiding the connotation of being associated with an object rather than as an individual/person. And if one felt the need to justify that choice, you could even go so far as to say something like "the absence of something is not the same as nothing". But to each their own, I suppose. 🤷‍♂️

server_dingo said:
Not to deviate from discussing the art itself (which is lovely), but I don't personally understand why one wouldn't just opt to use they/them in that situation.

Obviously I say this with the acknowledgement that at the end of the day you can ask people to use whatever pronoun you want, and those who do are well within their right to do so. But I figure that surely the initial discomfort of being referred to as an object, to a degree, must also be felt by the one using the pronoun... I'd think that, if one doesn't identify as any gender, then a gender-agnostic "they/them" serves the same purpose of conveying a non-standard gender identification while also avoiding the connotation of being associated with an object rather than as an individual/person. And if one felt the need to justify that choice, you could even go so far as to say something like "the absence of something is not the same as nothing". But to each their own, I suppose. 🤷‍♂️

artist here!! (and person who owns eli, and uses he/it myself lol)

it gets a little tricky to truly put down into words *why* i use it/its pronouns, but there's a lot behind why anyone in particular might. for me it's due to a unique disconnect from the human identity, for a lot of reasons i'm not sure i'm fully comfortable talking about on the internet yet. it's also to reclaim it! as a trans person i've been dehumanized a lot of my life, so to use them, it puts me at a place of "control" over whether or not *i* am humanized or not. historically, it/its *has* been used to dehumanize trans people, or generally anyone that someone may consider unsavory or wrong- and i think that's a big appeal for using it. it could be reclaiming it, it could be connecting to spirituality that doesn't involve connecting with the human identity- there are lots of reasons that i couldn't even name here, just because the list is so long!

i used to use they/them as well, but it just doesn't quite feel the same as it/its for reasons that are harder to put to words for me than to explain why i use it/its to begin with. it's a fine pronoun set, but it feels like it's missing something that it/its has. i think it's normal to be confused over the pronouns, especially since they're outside of the 'normal' pronouns most people have gotten used to (he/him, she/her, they/them), so i think the sentiment of "why not just use they/them?" is pretty common! at the end of the day, they're just words used towards (or by) someone that makes them comfortable, so i think an attitude of "to each their own" like you put it is great! (also, thank you for the compliment on my art!)

server_dingo said:
-snip-

Like the artist said in their reply, it's a little difficult as to explain exactly the sentiment of why someone would want to do that. My ex, for example, I remember them saying that they preferred it/its (as well as they/them) due to their feelings of being separated from what it really meant to be "human" because, A: they were never really treated like a person by people, and B: their unique upbringing, as they are First Nations (Essentially, native Americans but Canadian) and the beliefs that they have. In the end, the mentality of "to each their own" is definitely one that works here, and I also agree that the reclamation of the pronouns is absolutely a noble and positive route. I think that shifting the way people think about pronouns when referring to people is also very important.

I must also add, the art is very lovely, and I adore both the way it's drawn, and the way that it made this conversation take place! I love it when a constructive conversation can take place.

lustwasp said:
good stuff

Thank you for the insight! And my pleasure, re: the compliment. Keep up the great work! 👏

lustwasp said:
artist here!! (and person who owns eli, and uses he/it myself lol)

it gets a little tricky to truly put down into words *why* i use it/its pronouns, but there's a lot behind why anyone in particular might. for me it's due to a unique disconnect from the human identity, for a lot of reasons i'm not sure i'm fully comfortable talking about on the internet yet. it's also to reclaim it! as a trans person i've been dehumanized a lot of my life, so to use them, it puts me at a place of "control" over whether or not *i* am humanized or not. historically, it/its *has* been used to dehumanize trans people, or generally anyone that someone may consider unsavory or wrong- and i think that's a big appeal for using it. it could be reclaiming it, it could be connecting to spirituality that doesn't involve connecting with the human identity- there are lots of reasons that i couldn't even name here, just because the list is so long!

i used to use they/them as well, but it just doesn't quite feel the same as it/its for reasons that are harder to put to words for me than to explain why i use it/its to begin with. it's a fine pronoun set, but it feels like it's missing something that it/its has. i think it's normal to be confused over the pronouns, especially since they're outside of the 'normal' pronouns most people have gotten used to (he/him, she/her, they/them), so i think the sentiment of "why not just use they/them?" is pretty common! at the end of the day, they're just words used towards (or by) someone that makes them comfortable, so i think an attitude of "to each their own" like you put it is great! (also, thank you for the compliment on my art!)

This gave me a lot of insight as well, thank you! But i am still curious; you go by he/it, meaning that (as far i am aware please correct me if i am wrong) you are comfortable with both he/him and it/it's. So, he/him is no problem, ez pz lemon human life. But when someone should address you with the latter, or talk about you in that matter, how does it look like? Would it be like, "lustwasp is such a nice person, it is also a very good artist"? Or, "have you heard of lustwasp? It's making very good art!", that is one thing that still confuses me a bit, how do i address a person that specifically goes by it/it's?

Wicker-G041 said:
This gave me a lot of insight as well, thank you! But i am still curious; you go by he/it, meaning that (as far i am aware please correct me if i am wrong) you are comfortable with both he/him and it/it's. So, he/him is no problem, ez pz lemon human life. But when someone should address you with the latter, or talk about you in that matter, how does it look like? Would it be like, "lustwasp is such a nice person, it is also a very good artist"? Or, "have you heard of lustwasp? It's making very good art!", that is one thing that still confuses me a bit, how do i address a person that specifically goes by it/it's?

this is a good question to ask!! i am comfortable with both he/him and it/its separately, i just shorten it to he/it for simplicity pfff

to use it, its pretty much just like how you put it, yeah! "lustwasp's taking a break today, it must be pretty tired", "lustwasp is sick today, it must've eaten something bad yesterday", etc. are all valid uses! its just like using he/him, but with a swap of words is all- the challenging part as has been mentioned on this post before for most people is getting over the feeling of dehumanizing someone by using them, but if someone uses the pronouns and is comfortable with them, then using them the same way you'd use other pronouns, or mr. / ms., works perfectly fine!

(also, thank you to everyone complimenting me/my work!! really inspiring to me honestly, especially since this all is showing me that i'm building an audience that's willing to have these kinds of discussions, lol)

lustwasp said:

this is a good question to ask!! i am comfortable with both he/him and it/its separately, i just shorten it to he/it for simplicity pfff

to use it, its pretty much just like how you put it, yeah! "lustwasp's taking a break today, it must be pretty tired", "lustwasp is sick today, it must've eaten something bad yesterday", etc. are all valid uses! its just like using he/him, but with a swap of words is all- the challenging part as has been mentioned on this post before for most people is getting over the feeling of dehumanizing someone by using them, but if someone uses the pronouns and is comfortable with them, then using them the same way you'd use other pronouns, or mr. / ms., works perfectly fine!

(also, thank you to everyone complimenting me/my work!! really inspiring to me honestly, especially since this all is showing me that i'm building an audience that's willing to have these kinds of discussions, lol)

Thanks for the reply! It helped a great deal in understanding.

Also, i LOVE your characters, and art style! I originally found your stuff when i wss looking for bug art because i have a bug myself and now i cannot seem to escape you - in a good way of course! I'd love to commission you sometime. I tried to find a price sheet but cannot find one you posted. Do you have one i could take a looksie at?

wicker-g041 said:
Thanks for the reply! It helped a great deal in understanding.

Also, i LOVE your characters, and art style! I originally found your stuff when i wss looking for bug art because i have a bug myself and now i cannot seem to escape you - in a good way of course! I'd love to commission you sometime. I tried to find a price sheet but cannot find one you posted. Do you have one i could take a looksie at?

ahh i'm very honored by this! i currently don't have a price sheet, but the best way to contact me regarding prices is through twitter (@lustwasp) or discord (drugbee)!